The business of compassion with Carlene Donnelly

We are joined by the Executive Director of CUPS in Calgary, Carlene Donnelly, to talk about how the well-respected organization works in the social sector. Carlene, alongside many research partners and faculties, has created a focus on using research and proven theories in tangible practice for the betterment of lives filled with hardship and trauma.

Carlene’s insight, passion, and knowledge on how to meld research and business into the social sector is both inspirational and aspirational.

Hearing our conversation on this topic will open us up to new ways of thinking about hardship, trauma, and the houseless.

Episode Notes 

Melanie Nicholson is joined by the Executive Director of CUPS in Calgary, Carlene Donnelly, to talk about how the well-respected organization works in the social sector. Carlene, alongside many research partners and faculties, has created a focus on using research and proven theories in tangible practice for the betterment of lives filled with hardship and trauma.

Carlene has a natural passion for people but she drew on her background in education and psychology to explore what drives an individual’s journey for the negative. She focuses on a trauma-informed approach using development research to reframe social assistance as training and skills. It’s through asking the question “What happened to you?” instead of “What’s wrong with you?” and understanding generational trauma as well as trauma’s impact on a child’s development. Carlene’s insight, passion, and knowledge on how to meld research and business into the social sector is both inspirational and aspirational. Hearing her conversation with Melanie on this topic will open us up to new ways of thinking about hardship, trauma, and the houseless. 

“There's always hope on how to help you in this journey. What are your priorities? And I think that that's a really powerful thing to say to someone to let them be proud of how they've survived pretty, pretty serious situations and pretty serious environments and give them the hope that anything's possible in many ways and that they have the power to drive that. And as we give them more options and understanding around, you know, different skills and abilities and what executive functioning is, what emotional management self-regulation is, they generally want to be part of that.” - Carlene Donnelly

About Carlene Donnelly

Since 1989, CUPS has built resilient lives for Calgarians facing the challenges of poverty and trauma. Carlene has spent the past 25 years as a senior leader in the social services sector. Since 2003, she has led CUPS through significant change and growth, participated in high profile research and advocacy projects and has shared her learnings with audiences around the globe. Carlene believes in a science- informed approach to improving outcomes for children and families and passionately advocates for organizations to adopt a business framework and apply current brain science to achieve a larger impact. Under her leadership, CUPS has evolved from a traditional charity to a trailblazing, science-based social agency, capable of improving outcomes for Calgarians for generations to come. 

In her 18 years as Executive Director, Carlene’s innovative approach using the practical application of business to increase the impact of the organization has yielded many significant advances. Some of her achievements include growing the budget from $650,000 to $17 million, executing a successful $20 million capital campaign to accommodate this growth, securing contracts with provincial health systems to ensure comprehensive primary and specialist care for all CUPS, and expanding child development program to a two-generational model – aligned with current science – to ensure entire families are set up for long-term success. Because of her focus on reporting, CUPS began to develop program plans tied to demonstratable outcomes and put a data infrastructure in place that positioned CUPS to speak credibly about impact. 

A proud PEIslander, Carlene completed a degree in Psychology at home and later earned her MA of Education from the University of New Brunswick and an MBA from the University of Phoenix. Among her other accolades, she’s trained in Coaching Skills and Change Management. Over the span of her career has worked to develop strategies surrounding the challenge of poverty for vulnerable citizens with every level of government, Harvard University’s Center on the Developing Child, the United Way’s Council of Champions, Alberta Family Wellness Initiative, and advisory committees at the University of Calgary.

Resources discussed in this episode:

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Contact Melanie Nicholson | Melanie Lynn Communications Inc. 

Contact Carlene Donnelly

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Transcript

Melanie Nicholson: [00:00:03] Hey, everyone, and welcome to It's a Theory. I'm Melanie Nicholson, and I'm taking you inside the world of leaders and entrepreneurs who are taking ideas and concepts and putting them into action. What really happened when they put theory into practice? Let's find out. Today, we're talking with Carlene Donnelly, executive director of CUPS in Calgary, an extremely well-respected organization in the social sector. Since 1989, CUPS has built resilient lives for Calgarians facing the challenges of poverty and trauma. A little more about Carlene. Carlene has been a senior leader in this sector for more than 25 years. Since 2003, she's led CUPS through significant change and growth, participated in high-profile research and advocacy projects, and has shared her learnings with audiences around the globe. A Proud PEIslander Carlene completed a degree in psychology at home and later earned her MA of education from the University of New Brunswick and an MBA from the University of Phoenix. Among her other accolades, she's trained in coaching skills and change management, and over the span of her career, has worked to develop strategies surrounding the challenge of poverty for vulnerable citizens with every level of government, Harvard University Center on the Developing Child, the United Way's Council of Champions, Alberta Family Wellness Initiative, and Advisory Committees at the University of Calgary. This conversation is going to give you a sense of taking research and proven theories and really putting them into practice in a sector that isn't traditionally business minded. This is a really insightful conversation with Carlene. I'm happy you're here. Let's dive in.

 

Melanie Nicholson: [00:01:42] Carlene, welcome to the podcast. I'm so happy you're here. I've known Carlene probably five, or six years now, I guess?

 

Carlene Donnelly: [00:01:50] It is. It has been.

 

Melanie Nicholson: [00:01:51] I really feel like you've opened my eyes so much to the world of trauma-informed care and getting really to the root cause of people's challenges. It's been so inspiring. I really wanted to make this a wider conversation so more people can learn from you. So thank you so much for being here. And I really want to start with your story. How did you get into the social sector? Because there, I would say from my experience working within the social sector with clients, it's a special personality type that is drawn into the space. So how did you get there?

 

Carlene Donnelly: [00:02:27] Well, first of all, Melanie, thank you so much for having me on. And yes, we've been working together a long time and having conversations like this along the way that, I think, is the main point of why we all do this work is really trying to give people new tools and information of how we can have a more healthy, you know, state in our communities and cities and provinces and all across Canada. Hopefully it transcends to the whole world, but it's in all of us to own that responsibility. So thank you for letting me be here today. My background in education, my first two degrees were in psychology and education. So definitely I was always driven to understand what makes people tick and what are the thought processes, you know, how does that differ when in an individual's journey versus an individual scenario, you know, how do things change for the negative when we have different social issues that are seemingly getting so much worse. So it was definitely a passion for me to understand that. I think it's also something in me that really always thinks that from some structural point of view, there's ways to not only inform people and give them new tools, but also to create better structures, to help both prevention happen more, but also to close gaps that are really kind of causing a lot of trauma. So I think it really was just a journey. And I love people. I love interacting with people I've always been drawn to learn from them and to share information and to grow and develop. And I just love interacting. So, you know, the journey of where and how I got into the sector really stems from just trying to make the world a better place. And starting in my own home to my own community, to my own city, to my own province, but extending that beyond and there's many, many people doing that. And those intersections, you know, really can create a lot of actions that can do good.

 

Melanie Nicholson: [00:04:26] I would argue that traditionally the social sector isn't run from a business mindset. It's run from a place of the people and the passion, which is so important, but there doesn't always seem to be that business savvy. When you, with your shift into executive director at CUPS, you wanted to make a shift there. Can you talk about that initial decision to sort of change the game really of how the social sector worked, especially with CUPS and then hopefully beyond?

 

Carlene Donnelly: [00:04:56] Absolutely. It was a different path. It's not really traditional. I have to say that I think anything in my career has been traditional, and I think that's actually a good thing. The desire to go and get my MBA really stemmed from, you know, my belief that the business community, the corporate sector are involved and they want to know and they want to, you know, do more, get more involved and do more. And I needed to better understand how we take, you know, the financial kind of framework and even the fund development framework of a nonprofit and help them understand what money goes to where, how and why we make those decisions, what's the impact we're looking for, how we help people progress to a healthier state of being.

 

Carlene Donnelly: [00:06:14] I think it was also for my own learning and understanding as well in terms of how to create a better structure and platform for impact and for decisions around what do we fund, what do we not, how are we making those decisions. And that's been a progress that's been quite a long progress for us. And I will say lastly, finally, you know, it isn't just government and the nonprofit sector that is the main responsibility or the main parties responsible for the well-being of the most vulnerable in our city. And I really think I see, on the edge of other sectors, a desire to be more involved. So it really was about how do we pull everyone in to make the most civil society and healthiest communities that we can? And that was really the premise, is just trying to understand the different frameworks of each sector we were trying to engage in a much deeper way with the work that we do that's based on evidence and impact.

 

Melanie Nicholson: [00:07:13] So talk about that evidence. I mean, you're talking about pulling in a collective. You've pulled in the University of Calgary, you've pulled in the Harvard Center on the Developing Child. You're talking some big research-level organizations and post-secondaries. You've pulled from their knowledge and scope and taken that business knowledge, the research, and then where did you go together with all that information?

 

Carlene Donnelly: [00:07:36] And again, it's been a journey. It's been a long journey. We partnered with Palix Foundation long, long ago, almost 20 years ago, if not more. And back then it was called Norlien Foundation, and they've evolved into the Palix Foundation. But a lot of the work that they were doing was in partnership with Harvard University, particularly the Center on the Developing Child and other entities. And I've always had a long-standing relationship with the various faculties at the University of Calgary. And literally in 2002, we engaged with the university and with the faculty and specifically with the faculty of Nursing, Doctor Karen Menzie, to look at the first preliminary studies of our child development programs and really trying to work out what difference does this make. From that it literally just grew as I learned more through the Palix Foundation on how brains develop and in particular what derails healthy brain development and what that means with a healthy attachment and what that means with serve and return and being able to understand and fully, you know, engage with what skills and developments we need to to help our parents and caregivers develop to really have that healthy attachment and to be able to have those skills and abilities to really be, you know, proactively working with their children in a very healthy and positive way.

 

Carlene Donnelly: [00:09:03] And there was, what I noticed was when you started building those relationships, more opportunities came up to do more and know more. And our caregivers and parents were eager to learn this information, you know, more than anything message I could ever deliver is the parents and caregivers want to change the trajectory of their life and not have that be their child's. Every parent I've ever met, that I personally ever met, certainly wants more for their child than in many ways, the life they had. And they're willing to work and make their life better so their child can have that better opportunity sooner and hopefully as early as possible. So that really propelled us as well. We were very careful and gave incredibly a lot of thought leadership, which really took us down the road of trauma-informed care of how do we message this in a positive way? You know, truly it is proven and it's a very strong statement I will say, what happens to you as a child is 100% not your responsibility. But as you become an adult, managing that and trying to become healthier through that is an accountability you have that transcends down to your children. That was embraced by our parents. So that really encouraged us to do more and learn more and build on those research partnerships.

 

Carlene Donnelly: [00:10:22] But I just personally very much believe, and it goes back to the business framework and I don't want to be pitted between the business world and the nonprofit that they can't merge together, because I absolutely very much feel that not only can they, they want to be, and they should on a bigger scale, and that's a win-win for everybody. So for me, it really came down to we are guided by evidence and that kind of guides what our priorities are in the programs and services we deliver that are proven to have the most impact. And I will say over the last ten-plus years, we've seen much more positive progression of families and adults moving to a healthy state of being and becoming, going out the back door into the community, with supportive networks, with not only reduced stress but ability to manage stress as they come on with their networks of support that they need to utilize and have increased skills and abilities, particularly around, you know, emotional management and executive functioning skills. And they're able to utilize in their community those supports and manage crises that arise without fight, flight, or freeze. Able to work their way through it to a positive end.

 

Carlene Donnelly: [00:11:31] And that's really what we were all taught in a healthy way when we were young. And when you're not taught, then it really makes adulthood very, very challenging. And that's something that, again, isn't the responsibility of a child. But as they learn it and they become more proactive in their communities with that, they are so proud of the work they did and their ability that they truly just go out the back door, so to speak, versus just give a service and put them in a community and let them manage it all. We help them with that transition and those three components - reducing stress, building skills and abilities and enhancing supportive networks and positive networks - is one is proven to increase resiliency in people and that as we get them engaged in their community and come out, you know, come slide away, we're seeing way more of our families and adults move out into community and not need us anymore - except maybe in a situation - than I ever did 15 plus years ago. So we know what we're doing is heading us in the right direction in a very positive way.

 

Melanie Nicholson: [00:12:35] Can you talk about that moment, though, when you opened the Child Development Center, 2002 you mentioned it with the Palix Foundation. That day, I mean, that must have been... You take, you've done the research, you've got this great insight, these great supporters and sponsors. What does that look like? And was it, did you feel the win there or was that the feeling of just beginning?

 

Carlene Donnelly: [00:12:58] No, I wouldn't say we felt the win then. What I think was really interesting at that time, CUPS had a health clinic, which was always very proactively preventative and treating the most vulnerable. That's never changed. We had some support staff. We had reached him at that point. We just started the Family Resource Center. And I remember Nancy Maddox was quite involved at that time, and she was, it was her introduction to the Center on the Developing Child in Harvard that we started really understanding about healthy brain development. And what really came up on that was just a whole focus on, okay, we're trying to help kids through the adults, which is what Center on the Developing Child would say, but we weren't really helping the children integrate one on a social, emotional and really kind of ability, academic ability to do well in school. And so that showed up as we start to learn more as a gap, quite frankly, and there was Providence and Heartland and Renfrew and others, we really saw from quite a significant level with our parents who were already engaged, that there might be an opportunity not to do something there and to learn from it. And certainly that's why we've always had quite a focus on two generational. Parents have to make shifts in their lives so the environment at home matches what the kids are learning in the classroom and with their own supports. But I think the aha moment for me, Melanie, honestly, and it came probably a little bit later as we started doing this work more and I was quite frustrated and remembering an end, saw my management team and saying, you know, I find it so frustrating and I think we're dropping the ball. I think we're failing our families and individuals because we get them set up, they're in a home, the kids are doing well, or if they're by themselves, they're doing well. It seems like there's some money coming in. It seems to be adequate, like things seem to be okay. And six months to two years later, quite a significant portion of them would come back in either the same shape that they originally came in or worse. And I thought, We're dropping the ball here, we're missing something. And as I started learning how brains develop and as I started learning, you know, kind of what healthy brain development is and then what derails it, as I said, but also what derails it really is living in traumatic circumstances for a long period of time.

 

Carlene Donnelly: [00:15:27] You know, addictions, mental health, home, frequent homelessness, whole subfactor of things that really causes kids to, you know, literally their brain to get derailed. And the trajectory is quite clear through the adverse childhood experience study that after four of those adverse childhood experiences, there are significant physical health, mental health and social concerns that happen. After seven it gets even more significant. And as we start seeing that, that was the aha moment for me. And I remember talking about this to Nancy. And as they progressed and did more at the Palix Foundation, it certainly helped our work as well. But at that moment I thought, you know what, we think giving them stuff like an apartment, paying the rent, reducing the stress, we were always good at reducing the stress. And in many ways we were also pretty good at building supportive networks but we stayed part of that supportive networks in the past, probably a little bit more than we should have. But we weren't really building those skills and abilities. And that's the executive functioning, including the self-regulation that really seemed about how they managed their life. And that was the aha moment to me. That's the missing piece.

 

Melanie Nicholson: [00:16:44] So it was set up so that they would almost rely on you too much.

 

Carlene Donnelly: [00:16:48] And while there were so many other factors. They weren't really able, now what we're seeing when we do real work with developing these skills and abilities and executive functioning and coping skills and self-regulation skills, is that instead of just either going, you know, completely in a panic or completely shutting down or just running away from a situation, they'll go, Okay. This happened. Here's who I can talk to about it. This is what I can do to mitigate that. Here's what I'm going to prioritize, what I need to do first. And they're able to actually walk their way through it with support, but they're leading it and they're smaller pieces of support because they have those skills and abilities. And we weren't really doing a lot of work in that area. We really weren't ten years ago and even probably eight years, 7 or 8 years ago. And that's something we're not 100% there yet, but that's what we've identified as when we give them the power to manage their own life and the skills and abilities and the training, you know, in certain different areas to do that, we're able to keep bowing out the back door and they're driving it. So what we see now is they start, when we do their care plan, they identify their priorities based on where they scored low in our overall intake assessment. And we talk about that in strength-based, all the things they're doing really good, like you let in a child's life that's economically and socially, you know, sometimes challenged, it's great to see what they're able to really kind of be resilient in. And then we ask them what their priorities are in the areas that they clearly need help and they identify that, but they drive it right from the get-go now. And they are the leaders in their own plan. Way more from the start now and we just more and more back out. So that's changed because we've given them the skills and abilities to do that.

 

Melanie Nicholson: [00:18:42] You've also made a big language shift, I would say, because there's a perception of people not having an understanding of how did someone end up in this position. So it's, the general is, Well, what's wrong with you? Why are you there? What's going on? You've tried to really change that narrative to be What happened to you. Can you talk a bit more about what that looks like?

 

Carlene Donnelly: [00:19:03] I think that was an aha moment, to be honest. And Bruce Perry and Oprah supported that book, you know, What Happened To You, and that's a great read, by the way. But it really is clear in the Center of the Developing Child as well, there was white papers that came out on this as well, but it again comes from that trauma-informed strength base of not blaming the victim in many ways. You know, we look at them as being accountable as an adult. But when you really scale back to what happened in their childhood, it was from this alone assessment. It is as predictable as rain, that cloudy weather. It's just, we knew this was going to happen. And if we don't do more to help them mitigate that and give them the skills and abilities to prevent what the trajectory says is quite predictably going to happen, it seems blaming then when we hold them accountable for what we knew would happen, quite frankly. So at the end of the day, I really feel saying, tell us your story, tell us, you know, what your childhood was like. And then we sometimes, you know, we can ask these questionnaire. I know there's some trepidation about asking that but we blend it into a conversation, try and make it into a positive conversation of, you know, if they tell us something that they went, you know, ended up going to college, coming from a pretty challenged home, that's remarkable. Let's celebrate that. So it's about letting them tell their story of what happened. And in many cases, it is pretty painful to hear. It's pretty, it's a lot of weight to carry as a young person. You know, we then turn that into, you know, what do you want your child's life to be like or what would you like to see, you know, the next chapters in your life be like, what would that take to do that? How committed would you be? So I think we always try to make it into, We understand and even some data says this is what the weight you're under. We have the resiliency scale with the red bricks where we show them that, it's pretty clear the weight of the world that they're carrying. And we really encourage them to stop being hard on themselves and self-blaming. And, you know, it comes from shame in many ways, but the shame shouldn't be theirs for what they went through.

 

Carlene Donnelly: [00:21:21] So we do turn that into a positive in that anything's possible. There's always hope on how to help you in this journey. What are your priorities? And I think that that's a really powerful thing to say to someone and let them be proud of how they've survived pretty, pretty serious situations and pretty serious environments and give them the hope that anything's possible in many ways and that they have the power to drive that. And as we give them more options and understanding around, you know, different skills and abilities and what executive functioning is, what emotional management self-regulation is, they generally want to be part of that. And that's to me, that was the driver. If we got resistance from our clients and patients to say, nope, you know, I don't know, I think we would have educated ourselves, but I don't know we would have did this level of transformational change, but we didn't. We absolutely didn't. And, you know, change management is always hard for anyone. But what I'm seeing is using those evidence and having the impact that we're seeing now with significantly less people coming back in that short span that I mentioned earlier. We're on the right route.

 

Melanie Nicholson: [00:22:32] Transformational change. I've heard you say that before. What does that mean to you?

 

Carlene Donnelly: [00:22:37] I guess for me, it's, you know, always being open to listen and learning regardless of the role you're doing or the workload you have or the title you have, this information is evidence-based. It's critical. It tells us what traumatic events over a significant period of time without a supporting adult that has a healthy capability to give you that support. We know what happens. And, you know, at the end of the day, we still see addictions rise. We still see mental health rise. We see, you know, a lot of people that would be, at least the criteria of the clients that we see in our jails. And in many ways, we know this is going to happen. And I think for me, transformational change is how do we do change, even if change is hard, for the better good? And I just think doing it based on evidence and impact that can definitely help the most vulnerable and empower them to be the drivers of their own life and feel they have a voice, feel that they don't have to be intimidated, feel that they don't have to be angry all the time, that they're not heard or seen. I think that's incredibly empowering and if that's the trajectory we can be on, how hard it is to make significant change and do whatever change management you have to do within should be worth it.

 

Melanie Nicholson: [00:24:10] Amazing. So where do we go from here? What's the next ten years look like in this sector? Is there new research coming out to apply? Is there, I mean, that's always ongoing. Where, what do you do with the next steps?

 

Carlene Donnelly: [00:24:24] You know, I honestly think, and certainly I'm not the only one by far in the sector that's on the same train wave, I see the sector understanding this more. It's now just how does it get better embedded, the brain story with the Palix Foundation, I see more and more entities taking it and having that common language, a common understanding. It's now more about how do we align this to the work we do that makes sense to everyone and that really can close gaps in our community and really have a more upstream approach to people that are vulnerable. And to me, that's, you know, it's complicated. It is, because you have to get funders on board, government on board. I do not see an unwillingness at all with the business community, I see a willingness with the funders at the more general level, at the government level, United Way, FCSS, big corporate foundations. I see people really getting this more and more over the last decade. I think it's now just how do we have stability in our government? You know, many get the fact that if you have evidence and you have, you know, impact, whether you call that research and results or you call it, you know, whatever language you want to use, they do understand that. And it makes sense for how we make decisions based on the best result with limited dollars. We'll never have a gazillion more dollars to put into this. However, I would argue we don't need to if we can get it more right, if we can do more prevention and more upstream with this information and we can all be rowing in the same direction, common agreements on what the gaps are and who's in their own lane to do what is their own personal expertise that they have proven. And how does that fit like a jigsaw puzzle into a healthier community? I think we can get there. It's not easy enough, certainly not minimizing that, but I see an energy for a lot more people want to do this and a lot more sectors want to get involved hands-on.

 

Melanie Nicholson: [00:26:29] And I think more people are looking to learn, which I think is also so important as people want to better understand so that they can better help and be part of that collective unified force moving forward.

 

Carlene Donnelly: [00:26:43] Absolutely. I agree. And I think, you know, to me, we have to stay positive or proactive. There's no pitting the nonprofit sector against government or the business community or the foundations or the... We're all in this together. And, you know, that might be a cliche, but at the end of the day, it is our communities we want to live in. It is, you know, we show up as people we want to be every day and we want to show up to produce communities that we want to see healthier and happier every day. And that's on all of us. It really is. And I truly see that. And I think it's hard work. It's hard work every day. Marriage is hard work every day. Raising children are hard work every day. You know, doing your job is hard work every day, but it's worth it in most cases. And if not, change direction and find something that makes it worth it. But it has to be worth it. And I guess I just feel this work as I've had, been so blessed with so many supporters and funders, the leadership of the Palix Foundation, being involved with the Center of the Developing Child at Harvard, the University of Calgary, multiple faculties, medicine, nursing, education, psychiatry, psychology, I mean all of them and more. And I apologize if I'm missing anyone, but all of them have been so instrumental. Dr. Karen Menzie has been with us for over 20 years, has showed up on so many guiding levels for us and me to better understand how research works, how do we have a voice in it and we get the best bang out of it.

 

Carlene Donnelly: [00:28:15] Dr. Nicole Letourneau has done multiple projects in our family development center and they are all, the program and beyond, are all doing so, so well. So, you know, I look at that and I think there's so much more opportunity provincially and federally we can do on this work together. And if we can take the framework we've developed at CUPS with a very strong board, with a, you know, it very much has done so much led by Mike Lang, to make me understand the business world and the impact and desires they have and how they can best understand the work we do in a simplistic way, because everyone's busy and you have to make it easy to understand, you know, they need to be able to see what they think is impactful for them and then move on. And they've been amazing in educating and guiding me on that work. But I just think we have a template as one example, but we do have a template that I think if we can share this at various points across Canada, I think there's a lot of opportunity to take our successes and remodify them in different environments that allow us to not start from scratch at every single model that we want to try. And we're more than happy to do that because at the end of the day, it's about keeping Canada one of the best countries in the world.

 

Melanie Nicholson: [00:29:31] And we all work together at that.

 

Carlene Donnelly: [00:29:32] We all work together on that.

 

Melanie Nicholson: [00:29:34] Thank you so much, Carlene. I really appreciate the conversation. An inspiration, as always.

 

Carlene Donnelly: [00:29:40] You are so welcome and thank you for working with us as well for so long. But, you know, it's a journey and you're part of that journey as well. But it's a journey that we're always willing to have other people hop on the train.

 

Melanie Nicholson: [00:29:52] Fantastic. I can honestly say that with my time learning from Carlene, it has changed the way I understand those who are experiencing homelessness, those who are struggling with addiction, and the generational impacts that many families are facing. If you take only one thing away from today's conversation, I hope it's that you are shifting your perspective. Instead of what's wrong with you, let's focus on what happened to you because everyone has a story and their story and their experiences matter. Please like, subscribe, and consider giving us a five-star rating on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts. We'll catch you next time on It's a Theory.

 





Keywords:

Melanie Nicholson, It’s A Theory, entrepreneur, Carlene Donnelly, CUPS, CUPS Calgary Society, research-based, social sector, poverty, trauma, trauma-informed care, Harvard University Center on the Developing Child, business mindset, development framework, nonprofit, child development, skills and abilities, self-regulation, change management

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